biblemike wonders

There isn't anything new in what I have to say, but I do see life from an unique perspective. As my body is shutting down, my soul is opening up to a greater and greater relationship with Christ. I am sharing the things I learn as I go through my trials so that those who read what I write will be encouraged in their own walks by how gracious God has been to me in mine. Ask me questiions, dispute my views and most of all pray for me.
UCFM Evangelistic Association

Monday, January 24, 2005



Yes, I know. Theologically is spelled with two "L"s. I hope my apologetics are better than my spelling.


Is Homosexuality Theologicaly Logical

I recently stumbled on a website where well meaning Christians were arguing whether homosexuality was genetic or not if that should make a difference in how we view homosexuals. The minute we sidetrack ourselves with these kinds of arguments we depart from the essence of God’s word and open the doors for liberalized theology which contradicts the teachings in God’s word. My first comment was based on the number of people who were veering into near hatred of homosexuals as people rather than seeing their actions as sinful.

Why do we Christians try to complicate God's word so? It is irrelevant whether homosexuals are born that way or come to that behavior as a result of environment or simply as a faulty expression of the "natural" man. The reality is that Christians in their attempts to show homosexuals are not born that way contribute to more hatred of the homosexual than of the homosexual act. God calls us to love all sinners and to hate all sin. It is not a sin to be a homosexual nor is it a sin to be a heterosexual. It is a sin for either of them to have sex outside the bonds of matrimony as defined by God between a man and a woman. Fornication is the sin whether homosexual or heterosexual. If we would limit the argument to that point we would certainly reduce the harm caused by our inordinate desire to be correct about genetics.


Later there was this comment from a woman who had fallen into the trap of “I can’t help myself” argument. I believed her to be sincere in her comments.. I felt burdened for her sufficient to stop what I was doing and pray. Here she was looking for a parallel between alcoholism, a genetic predisposition that is harmful to society, and homosexuality, a genetic predisposition that is not harmful to society in her eyes. This is where the whole genetic argument leads us.

Uh, I'm both an alcoholic, in recover, and a gay woman. I'm also a Christian. BTW, alcoholism is totally destructive of the human personality, and of life itself, eventually. Where's the parallel with homosexuality?But in fact I think you're going to have re-think this issue entirely, really, since the Bible contains no condemnation of Lesbianism. The only verse thought to contain such a condemnation has been Romans I, in a very ambiguous reference - which, BTW, Augustine himself thought referred to something quite different. The other verses (all 5 of them, out of tens of thousands of verses, many of which are concerned with helping the poor and oppressed) are addressed, specifically, to men.So please tell me why I should turn my entire life upside down in order to obey a non-existent rule. Just to make you folks happy, you think?

Not again!

P.S.: Heterosexuals view homosexuality with disdain because they are grossed out by the idea of gay sex. It seems "unnatural" to them because it is unnatural to them. Just as heterosexual sex is unnatural to us. That's the long and short of it, I'm afraid. No one knows why there are gay people. There just are. If what you're saying is that we can't be Christians because of it, at least look that fact in the face. You are employing here, the reverse of the Great Commission, and you should acknowledge it openly
.Not again!

I was moved to write to Not Again! and explain what I believe to be the true position of scripture as well as assure her that she is not being condemned as a person for what she believes is a predisposition that she cannot control.. I also wanted to address the fallacies that lead her to believe she can worship God as a Christian while practicing homosexuality and denying the sinfulness of her actions. I want to see her come to know God as He is not as she wants Him to be.

Dear Not Again!,

I detect your frustration in the name you have chosen. We all want to be validated and none of us wants to be condemned. I hope you saw nothing in my early post that would indicate condemnation, because I surely do not condemn anyone who finds themselves convinced of their own homosexuality. Neither do I condemn anyone who finds themselves in a situation of genetic predisposition, perceived or otherwise.

"Because of this , God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for each other." Romans 1:26-27a

As you can see the Bible does refer to lesbianism one time and compares it to male homosexuality, "in the same way," and defines it as unnatural, whether you argue the minority view regarding pagan worship by heterosexuals or not the scripture is clear that such relations are unnatural in the eyes of God.. God's law is that sexual relations are to be used both for procreation and for the expression of the oneness that occurs in marriage between a man and a woman. We need not like God's laws or His design, but He is the Creator and we are the created. He is the King and we are the subjects of His rule, like it or not.

We can spend our lives opposing what God's word states, and if we listen to our hearts we will know He has written His word there as well, or we can capitulate to His rule and obtain the benefits of doing so.

It isn't about my way or the highway. It is about His way or no way at all.

If you want to live your life as a lesbian, then by all means do so, but have the honesty not to bend God to fit your requirements. If you won't bend for Him, then at least have the self respect necessary to walk away. I prefer that you seek God's loving arms and change in the way He requests and He will give you the power to do, but if you are not going to do that, then go ahead and live the rest of this life as happily as you can.

In the mean time, I will pray for you and hope you will contact me so that we can talk together without invective or argument.

Yours in Christ,


I know of no logical arguments that would condemn homosexuality as immoral outside o the existence of a Creator God who declares homosexual behavior to be immoral. Of course I also acknowledge that there are no logical arguments to declare any behavior as immoral, even murder and child molestation. These are socially dependant. Only relativistic philosophy or a belief in a higher standard or code can be used to determine morality.

Man can only give his unsupported opinion that any given action is “moral” or “immoral”. Morality is relative and fluctuates in accordance with the social rules and beliefs of cultures throughout time, at least in the eyes the “objective” historian. One culture finds it morally acceptable to sacrifice children to idols. Another more modern culture merely sacrifices children to their personal convenience. One sees nothing wrong with eating the meat of an animal. Another finds the eating of his neighbor acceptable. Morality without God is a mater of subjective opinion.

Secular Humanism teaches that any action which involves the voluntary assent of two or more individuals should be accepted as long as it does not directly violate the rights of any other individuals. However this definition fails to discuss the indirect affect of such actions on society as a whole. As long as the action only involves those individuals all is well, but as often occurs without specific prohibitions against behaviors, what is acceptable to two can develop into a demand for acceptance by all and now others who have never previously accepted such behavior are required to accept that which they never believed. However, this still begs the question, “Is the acceptance and practice of homosexuality by society, harmful to that society?” Let’s note that we are drifting from morality into sociology.

Now there is some evidence, although not absolutely conclusive due to the small sub groups involved, that where homosexuality is embraced by a society, sexuality tends to be more violent and the society tends to be more violent as well. This is based on historical groups that have accepted homosexuality as well as modern studied of crime statistics in areas where homosexual behavior has been openly accepted such as in areas of San Francisco or parts of other major metropolitan cities where a sub culture of homosexuality exists and is accepted. There are also indications that women and children in an openly homosexual society may not be treated as well as in a heterosexual social group. Studies also show that homosexual social groups are far more promiscuous than heterosexual groups. It would also appear on the surface that children learn to relate better to both genders if they are raised by both genders. But for now this is all speculation, the truth is that we don’t know how widespread acceptance and practice of homosexuality would affect or influence larger society, because that has never been the case.

A common pro-homosexual argument is that because homosexuality may be genetic and therefore occurs naturally, then we should accept it as moral. However, there is more evidence that the criminal mind is genetic or that child molestation is genetic, do we want to argue that those behaviors should also be accepted as moral? Likewise gluttony and alcoholism are attributed to physiological needs in some persons, yet we don’t seem to be arguing that drunkenness or over eating should be accepted as moral. All of us are born with the propensity to sin. Using this argument for the acceptance of homosexuality we are therefore saying that all things now considered sin should be accepted in society. That argument is chillingly extreme but follows logically from the original argument for accepting homosexuality as moral.

There is an overwhelming evidence that homosexuality is due more to the influence of environment and society than anything else. Historians have estimated that almost all of the men in Sparta engaged in homosexual relationships, compared to estimates of les than 10% in cultures that consider the activity taboo. Percentages of homosexuals in any geographical location varies widely from culture to culture. This is not what we would expect to see based on genetic predisposition. Therein we would see relatively constant percentages. Even in the lives of individuals, sexual attraction makes itself known as a choice rather than as a preprogrammed instinct. A person can alternate between same sex and opposite sex relations. Sexual preferences tend to be more liquid that the activist homosexual community would seem to want the rest of society to believe. As societies promote same sex unions there seem to be more people opting for them, more indicative of liquidity than consistency.

What about those practicing homosexual that we know or suspect have drifted into those relationships as a result of not connecting with their fathers? When this happens, and no psychologist denies that it happens, the man is attempting to get a connection with their father that they always craved. The man’s actions are futile of course. So surrogate lover can take the place of a missing or abusive father. This homosexual man finds himself unfulfilled, still craving a connection that no one can establish. If this is an underlying cause of some, if not all, homosexuality, then we do these individuals a great injustice when we declare that homosexuality is normal behavior for which no treatment should be sought. By doing so we are sentencing that person to a life of dissatisfaction and woe.

The only legitimate question about homosexuality may be to ask why God condemns it. The difficulty therein is that He has told us that we must accept Him as Lord and King of our lives. That means for some things there are reasons we can understand and for others there are not. The scripture tells us that now we see through a glass darkly, but then we shall see face to face. Some day we will get answers to many of the questions that trouble us today, but there is no guarantee of that.. In a King servant relationship, there are many things for which the only answer is “Yes, Your Holiness.”

To be at war with one’s sin is to be at peace with God. To be at peace with one’s sin is to be at war with God. We cannot claim that that which God calls sin is not sin simply because we prefer it. When we do so we deny God’s sovereignty and only fool ourselves into thinking were His. I have no advice on how to win anyone’s personal war on homosexual behavior. I am not a homosexual. I know that I have fought and still fight wars against my own sinfulness and the only hope I have found for success is in Jesus. First, I must regret my sin – even when it is something I very much enjoy doing. Second, I must recognize that He is God and I am not and seek His forgiveness for trying to change that relationship. Third, I turn to Him for the source of my strength in overcoming anything that separates me from a perfect relationship with Him. When you worship a God of self-sacrifice, eventually you will learn the art for yourself.

Some Biblical comments regarding homosexuality and “homosexual theology”

Leviticus 18:22 “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do you not know that the wicked will to inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy or drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Romans 1:21 “For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.”

Romans 1:24-27 “Therefore God gave them over to the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator – who is forever praised, Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts, Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for each other. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

1 Corinthians 3:19a “For the wisdom of men is foolishness in God’s sight.”


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